SN 44.6

Catutthasāriputtakoṭṭhikasutta

Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca sāriputto, āyasmā ca mahākoṭṭhiko bārāṇasiyaṁ viharanti isipatane migadāye. Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yenāyasmā mahākoṭṭhiko tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā mahākoṭṭhikena saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā sāriputto āyasmantaṁ mahākoṭṭhikaṁ etadavoca: “‘kiṁ nu kho, āvuso koṭṭhika, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti …pe… ‘kiṁ panāvuso, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘etampi kho, āvuso, abyākataṁ bhagavatā— neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. Ko nu kho, āvuso, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

With Sāriputta and Koṭṭhita (4th)

At one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Varanasi in the deer park at Isipatana. Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Sāriputta came out of retreat, went to Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita, and they greeted each other. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Mahākoṭṭhita: “Reverend Koṭṭhita, does a realized one still exist after death?” … “Reverend, when asked these questions, you say that this has not been declared by the Buddha. What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?”

“Rūpārāmassa kho, āvuso, rūparatassa rūpasammuditassa rūpanirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti; ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti; ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti; ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti. Vedanārāmassa kho, āvuso, vedanāratassa vedanāsammuditassa, vedanānirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti …pe… saññārāmassa kho, āvuso …pe… saṅkhārārāmassa kho āvuso …pe… viññāṇārāmassa kho, āvuso, viññāṇaratassa viññāṇasammuditassa viññāṇanirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti.

“Reverend, if you like, love, and enjoy form, and don’t truly see the cessation of form, you think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ or ‘a realized one no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ If you like, love, and enjoy feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, and don’t truly see the cessation of consciousness, you think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’

Na rūpārāmassa kho, āvuso, na rūparatassa na rūpasammuditassa, rūpanirodhaṁ jānato passato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti. Na vedanārāmassa kho, āvuso …pe… na saññārāmassa kho, āvuso …pe… na saṅkhārārāmassa kho, āvuso …pe… na viññāṇārāmassa kho, āvuso, na viññāṇaratassa na viññāṇasammuditassa, viññāṇanirodhaṁ jānato passato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti. Ayaṁ kho, āvuso, hetu, ayaṁ paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.

If you don’t like, love, and enjoy form … feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, and you truly see the cessation of consciousness, you don’t think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ This is the cause, this is the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Siyā panāvuso, aññopi pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti? “Siyā, āvuso. Bhavārāmassa kho, āvuso, bhavaratassa bhavasammuditassa, bhavanirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti. Na bhavārāmassa kho, āvuso, na bhavaratassa na bhavasammuditassa, bhavanirodhaṁ jānato passato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti. Ayampi kho, āvuso, pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.

“But reverend, could there be another way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha?” “There could, reverend. If you like, love, and enjoy existence, and don’t truly see the cessation of continued existence, you think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ If you don’t like, love, and enjoy existence, and you truly see the cessation of continued existence, you don’t think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ This too is a way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha.”

“Siyā panāvuso, aññopi pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti? “Siyā, āvuso. Upādānārāmassa kho, āvuso, upādānaratassa upādānasammuditassa, upādānanirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti. Na upādānārāmassa kho, āvuso, na upādānaratassa na upādānasammuditassa, upādānanirodhaṁ jānato passato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti …pe… ‘neva, hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti. Ayampi kho, āvuso, pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.

“But reverend, could there be another way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha?” “There could, reverend. If you like, love, and enjoy grasping, and don’t truly see the cessation of grasping, you think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ If you don’t like, love, and enjoy grasping, and you truly see the cessation of grasping, you don’t think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ This too is a way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha.”

“Siyā panāvuso, aññopi pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti? “Siyā, āvuso. Taṇhārāmassa kho, āvuso, taṇhāratassa taṇhāsammuditassa, taṇhānirodhaṁ ajānato apassato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa hoti. Na taṇhārāmassa kho, āvuso, na taṇhāratassa na taṇhāsammuditassa, taṇhānirodhaṁ jānato passato yathābhūtaṁ, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipissa na hoti. Ayampi kho, āvuso, pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti.

“But reverend, could there be another way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha?” “There could, reverend. If you like, love, and enjoy craving, and don’t truly see the cessation of craving, you think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ If you don’t like, love, and enjoy craving, and you truly see the cessation of craving, you don’t think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ … ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ This too is a way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha.”

“Siyā panāvuso, aññopi pariyāyo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti? “Ettha dāni, āvuso sāriputta, ito uttari kiṁ icchasi? Taṇhāsaṅkhayavimuttassa, āvuso sāriputta, bhikkhuno vaṭṭaṁ natthi paññāpanāyā”ti.

“But reverend, could there be another way of explaining why this was not declared by the Buddha?” “Seriously, reverend, what more could you want? For one who is freed due to the ending of craving, there is no cycle of rebirths to be found.”