DN 9

Poṭṭhapādasutta 1. Poṭṭhapādaparibbājakavatthu

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme. Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako samayappavādake tindukācīre ekasālake mallikāya ārāme paṭivasati mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ tiṁsamattehi paribbājakasatehi. Atha kho bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya sāvatthiṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.

With Poṭṭhapāda 1. On the Wanderer Poṭṭhapāda

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. Now at that time the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda was residing together with three hundred wanderers in Mallikā’s single-halled monastery for philosophical debates, hedged by pale-moon ebony trees. Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms.

Atha kho bhagavato etadahosi: “atippago kho tāva sāvatthiyaṁ piṇḍāya carituṁ. Yannūnāhaṁ yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo, yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti. Atha kho bhagavā yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo tenupasaṅkami.

Then it occurred to him, “It’s too early to wander for alms in Sāvatthī. Why don’t I go to Mallikā’s monastery to visit the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda?” So that’s what he did.

Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ nisinno hoti unnādiniyā uccāsaddamahāsaddāya anekavihitaṁ tiracchānakathaṁ kathentiyā. Seyyathidaṁ—rājakathaṁ corakathaṁ mahāmattakathaṁ senākathaṁ bhayakathaṁ yuddhakathaṁ annakathaṁ pānakathaṁ vatthakathaṁ sayanakathaṁ mālākathaṁ gandhakathaṁ ñātikathaṁ yānakathaṁ gāmakathaṁ nigamakathaṁ nagarakathaṁ janapadakathaṁ itthikathaṁ sūrakathaṁ visikhākathaṁ kumbhaṭṭhānakathaṁ pubbapetakathaṁ nānattakathaṁ lokakkhāyikaṁ samuddakkhāyikaṁ itibhavābhavakathaṁ iti vā.

Now at that time, Poṭṭhapāda was sitting together with a large assembly of wanderers making an uproar, a colossal racket. They engaged in all kinds of low talk, such as talk about kings, bandits, and chief ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; talk at the street market and the place for water pots; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea; and talk about being reborn in this or that place.

Addasā kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ; disvāna sakaṁ parisaṁ saṇṭhapesi: “appasaddā bhonto hontu, mā bhonto saddamakattha. Ayaṁ samaṇo gotamo āgacchati. Appasaddakāmo kho so āyasmā appasaddassa vaṇṇavādī. Appeva nāma appasaddaṁ parisaṁ viditvā upasaṅkamitabbaṁ maññeyyā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, te paribbājakā tuṇhī ahesuṁ.

Poṭṭhapāda saw the Buddha coming off in the distance, and hushed his own assembly, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. Here comes the ascetic Gotama. The venerable likes quiet and praises quiet. Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.” Then those wanderers fell silent.

Atha kho bhagavā yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkami. Atha kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “etu kho, bhante, bhagavā. Svāgataṁ, bhante, bhagavato. Cirassaṁ kho, bhante, bhagavā imaṁ pariyāyamakāsi, yadidaṁ idhāgamanāya. Nisīdatu, bhante, bhagavā, idaṁ āsanaṁ paññattan”ti. Nisīdi bhagavā paññatte āsane. Poṭṭhapādopi kho paribbājako aññataraṁ nīcaṁ āsanaṁ gahetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ bhagavā etadavoca: “kāya nuttha, poṭṭhapāda, etarahi kathāya sannisinnā, kā ca pana vo antarākathā vippakatā”ti?

Then the Buddha approached Poṭṭhapāda, who said to him, “Let the Blessed One come, sir! Welcome to the Blessed One, sir! It’s been a long time since you took the opportunity to come here. Please, sir, sit down, here, a seat is ready.” The Buddha sat down on the seat spread out, while Poṭṭhapāda took a low seat and sat to one side. The Buddha said to him, “Poṭṭhapāda, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”

1.1. Abhisaññānirodhakathā

Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “tiṭṭhatesā, bhante, kathā, yāya mayaṁ etarahi kathāya sannisinnā. Nesā, bhante, kathā bhagavato dullabhā bhavissati pacchāpi savanāya. Purimāni, bhante, divasāni purimatarāni, nānātitthiyānaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ kotūhalasālāya sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ abhisaññānirodhe kathā udapādi: ‘kathaṁ nu kho, bho, abhisaññānirodho hotī’ti? Tatrekacce evamāhaṁsu: ‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye uppajjanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye nirujjhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti. Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Saññā hi, bho, purisassa attā. Sā ca kho upetipi apetipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upeti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apeti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti. Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Santi hi, bho, samaṇabrāhmaṇā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā. Te imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti. Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Santi hi, bho, devatā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā. Tā imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti. Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁyeva ārabbha sati udapādi: ‘aho nūna bhagavā, aho nūna sugato, yo imesaṁ dhammānaṁ sukusalo’ti. Bhagavā, bhante, kusalo, bhagavā pakataññū abhisaññānirodhassa. Kathaṁ nu kho, bhante, abhisaññānirodho hotī”ti?

1.1. On the Cessation of Perception

When he said this, the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda said to the Buddha, “Sir, leave aside what we were sitting talking about just now. It won’t be hard for you to hear about that later. Sir, a few days ago several ascetics and brahmins who follow various other religions were sitting together at the debating hall, and a discussion about the cessation of perception came up among them: ‘How does the cessation of perception happen?’ Some of them said: ‘A person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason. When they arise, you become percipient. When they cease, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception. But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! Perception is a person’s self, which enters and departs. When it enters, you become percipient. When it departs, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception. But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! There are ascetics and brahmins of great power and might. They insert and extract a person’s perception. When they insert it, you become percipient. When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception. But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! There are deities of great power and might. They insert and extract a person’s perception. When they insert it, you become percipient. When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception. That reminded me of the Buddha: ‘Surely it must be the Blessed One, the Holy One who is so very skilled in such matters.’ The Buddha is skilled and well-versed concerning the cessation of perception. How does the cessation of perception happen?”

1.2. Sahetukasaññuppādanirodhakathā

“Tatra, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu: ‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipī’ti, āditova tesaṁ aparaddhaṁ. Taṁ kissa hetu? Sahetū hi, poṭṭhapāda, sappaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi. Sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Kā ca sikkhā”ti? Bhagavā avoca. “Idha, poṭṭhapāda, tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ, sammāsambuddho …pe… Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sīlasampanno hoti …pe…

1.2. Perception Arises With a Cause

“Regarding this, Poṭṭhapāda, those ascetics and brahmins who say that a person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason are wrong from the start. Why is that? Because a person’s perceptions arise and cease with cause and reason. With training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And what is that training?” said the Buddha. “It’s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha … That’s how a mendicant is accomplished in ethics. …

tassime pañcanīvaraṇe pahīne attani samanupassato pāmojjaṁ jāyati, pamuditassa pīti jāyati, pītimanassa kāyo passambhati, passaddhakāyo sukhaṁ vedeti, sukhino cittaṁ samādhiyati.

Seeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed.

So vivicceva kāmehi, vivicca akusalehi dhammehi, savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā kāmasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayaṁ sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. The sensual perception that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā ajjhattaṁ sampasādanaṁ cetaso ekodibhāvaṁ avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, a mendicant enters and remains in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of immersion, with internal clarity and mind at one, without placing the mind and keeping it connected. The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of immersion. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu pītiyā ca virāgā upekkhako ca viharati sato ca sampajāno, sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṁvedeti, yaṁ taṁ ariyā ācikkhanti: ‘upekkhako satimā sukhavihārī’ti, tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, with the fading away of rapture, a mendicant enters and remains in the third absorption, where they meditate with equanimity, mindful and aware, experiencing for themselves the bliss of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous and mindful, one meditates in bliss.’ The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of immersion that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of bliss with equanimity. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sukhassa ca pahānā dukkhassa ca pahānā pubbeva somanassadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamā adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, with the giving up of pleasure and pain and the disappearance of former happiness and sadness, a mendicant enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness. The subtle and true perception of bliss with equanimity that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of neutral feeling. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso rūpasaññānaṁ samatikkamā paṭighasaññānaṁ atthaṅgamā nānattasaññānaṁ amanasikārā ‘ananto ākāso’ti ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā rūpasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite space. The perception of luminous form that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘anantaṁ viññāṇan’ti viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite space, aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite consciousness. The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘natthi kiñcī’ti ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, enters and remains in the dimension of nothingness. The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of nothingness. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

“Yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati. Tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti: ‘cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo. Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ, abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ; yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan’ti. So na ceva ceteti, na ca abhisaṅkharoti. Tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti. So nirodhaṁ phusati. Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hoti.

“Poṭṭhapāda, from the time a mendicant here takes charge of their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, progressively reaching the peak of perception. Standing on the peak of perception they think, ‘Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it. For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise. Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?’ They neither make a choice nor form an intention. Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise. They touch cessation. And that, Poṭṭhapāda, is how the progressive cessation of perception is attained with awareness.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, api nu te ito pubbe evarūpā anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti sutapubbā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante. Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, bhagavato bhāsitaṁ ājānāmi: ‘yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati, tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti: “cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo. Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ; yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ, na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan”ti. So na ceva ceteti, na cābhisaṅkharoti, tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti. So nirodhaṁ phusati. Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hotī’”ti. “Evaṁ, poṭṭhapādā”ti.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? Have you ever heard of this before?” “No, sir. This is how I understand what the Buddha said: ‘From the time a mendicant here takes charge of their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, progressively reaching the peak of perception. Standing on the peak of perception they think, “Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it. For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise. Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?” Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise. They touch cessation. And that is how the progressive cessation of perception is attained with awareness.’” “That’s right, Poṭṭhapāda.”

“Ekaññeva nu kho, bhante, bhagavā saññaggaṁ paññapeti, udāhu puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti? “Ekampi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti. “Yathā kathaṁ pana, bhante, bhagavā ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapeti, puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti? “Yathā yathā kho, poṭṭhapāda, nirodhaṁ phusati tathā tathāhaṁ saññaggaṁ paññapemi. Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti.

“Does the Buddha describe just one peak of perception, or many?” “I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.” “But sir, how do you describe it as one peak and as many?” “I describe the peak of perception according to the specific manner in which one touches cessation. That’s how I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.”

“Saññā nu kho, bhante, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, udāhu ñāṇaṁ paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā saññā, udāhu saññā ca ñāṇañca apubbaṁ acarimaṁ uppajjantī”ti? “Saññā kho, poṭṭhapāda, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hoti. So evaṁ pajānāti: ‘idappaccayā kira me ñāṇaṁ udapādī’ti. Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ— yathā saññā paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hotī”ti.

“But sir, does perception arise first and knowledge afterwards? Or does knowledge arise first and perception afterwards? Or do they both arise at the same time?” “Perception arises first and knowledge afterwards. The arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge. They understand, ‘My knowledge arose from a specific condition.’ That is a way to understand how perception arises first and knowledge afterwards; that the arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge.”

1.3. Saññāattakathā

“Saññā nu kho, bhante, purisassa attā, udāhu aññā saññā añño attā”ti? “Kaṁ pana tvaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attānaṁ paccesī”ti? “Oḷārikaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi rūpiṁ cātumahābhūtikaṁ kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkhan”ti. “Oḷāriko ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho. Evaṁ santaṁ kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, oḷāriko attā rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

1.3. Perception and the Self

“Sir, is perception a person’s self, or are perception and self different things?” “But Poṭṭhapāda, do you believe in a self?” “I believe in a solid self, sir, which is formed, made up of the four principal states, and consumes edible food.” “Suppose there was such a solid self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that solid self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

“Manomayaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi sabbaṅgapaccaṅgiṁ ahīnindriyan”ti. “Manomayo ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, manomayo attā sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

“Sir, I believe in a mind-made self which is whole in its major and minor limbs, not deficient in any faculty.” “Suppose there was such a mind-made self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that mind-made self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

“Arūpiṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi saññāmayan”ti. “Arūpī ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa saññāmayo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, arūpī attā saññāmayo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

“Sir, I believe in a formless self which is made of perception.” “Suppose there was such a formless self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that formless self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

“Sakkā panetaṁ, bhante, mayā ñātuṁ: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā”ti? “Dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attāti’ vā”ti.

“But, sir, am I able to know whether perception is a person’s self, or whether perception and self are different things?” “It’s hard for you to understand this, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination.”

“Sacetaṁ, bhante, mayā dujjānaṁ aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā; kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, mayā: ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Well, if that’s the case, sir, then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?” “This has not been declared by me, Poṭṭhapāda.”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti? “Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ: ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is not eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?” “This too has not been declared by me.”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘antavā loko …pe… ‘anantavā loko … ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ … ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ … ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti? “Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is finite …’ … ‘The cosmos is infinite …’ … ‘The soul and the body are one and the same …’ … ‘The soul is one thing, the body another …’ … ‘A realized one still exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one no longer exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?” “This too has not been declared by me.”

“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā abyākatan”ti? “Na hetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ na dhammasaṁhitaṁ nādibrahmacariyakaṁ, na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati, tasmā etaṁ mayā abyākatan”ti.

“Why haven’t these things been declared by the Buddha?” “Because they’re not beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I haven’t declared them.”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti? “Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākatan”ti.

“Then what has been declared by the Buddha?” “I have declared this: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.”

“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti? “Etañhi, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ dhammasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ ādibrahmacariyakaṁ, etaṁ nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattati; tasmā etaṁ mayā byākatan”ti. “Evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugata. Yassadāni, bhante, bhagavā kālaṁ maññatī”ti. Atha kho bhagavā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkāmi.

“Why have these things been declared by the Buddha?” “Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have declared them.” “That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One! Please, sir, go at your convenience.” Then the Buddha rose from his seat and left.

Atha kho te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ samantato vācā sannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu: “evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati: ‘evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā’ti. Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma: ‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā, ‘antavā loko’ti vā, ‘anantavā loko’ti vā, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako te paribbājake etadavoca: “ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi: ‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā; api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ. Bhūtaṁ kho pana tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapentassa dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ, kathañhi nāma mādiso viññū samaṇassa gotamassa subhāsitaṁ subhāsitato nābbhanumodeyyā”ti?

Soon after the Buddha left, those wanderers beset Poṭṭhapāda on all sides with sneering and jeering. “No matter what the ascetic Gotama says, Poṭṭhapāda agrees with him: ‘That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One!’ We understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t give any categorical teaching at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on.” When they said this, Poṭṭhapāda said to them, “I too understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t give any categorical teaching at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on. Nevertheless, the practice that he describes is true, real, and accurate. It is the regularity of natural principles, the surety of natural principles. So how on earth could a sensible person such as I not agree that what was well spoken by the ascetic Gotama was in fact well spoken?”

2. Cittahatthisāriputtapoṭṭhapādavatthu

Atha kho dvīhatīhassa accayena citto ca hatthisāriputto poṭṭhapādo ca paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā citto hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Poṭṭhapādo pana paribbājako bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “tadā maṁ, bhante, te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato samantato vācāsannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu: ‘evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati: “evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā”ti. Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma: “sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā, “antavā loko”ti vā, “anantavā loko”ti vā, “taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti vā, “aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti vā, “hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā’ti. Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te paribbājake etadavocaṁ: ‘ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi: “sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā …pe… “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā; api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ. Bhūtaṁ kho pana tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapentassa dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ, kathañhi nāma mādiso viññū samaṇassa gotamassa subhāsitaṁ subhāsitato nābbhanumodeyyā’”ti?

2. On Citta Hatthisāriputta

Then after two or three days had passed, Citta Hatthisāriputta and Poṭṭhapāda went to the Buddha. Citta Hatthisāriputta bowed and sat down to one side. But the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda exchanged greetings with the Buddha, and when the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. Poṭṭhapāda told the Buddha what had happened after he left. The Buddha said:

“Sabbeva kho ete, poṭṭhapāda, paribbājakā andhā acakkhukā; tvaṁyeva nesaṁ eko cakkhumā. Ekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā; anekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā. Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? ‘Sassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto; ‘asassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto; ‘antavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …pe… ‘anantavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Kasmā ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? Na hete, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitā na dhammasaṁhitā na ādibrahmacariyakā na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattanti. Tasmā te mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā. Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Kasmā ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? Ete hi, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitā, ete dhammasaṁhitā, ete ādibrahmacariyakā ete nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattanti. Tasmā te mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā.

“All those wanderers, Poṭṭhapāda, are blind and sightless. You are the only one whose eyes are clear. For I have taught and pointed out teachings that are categorical and also teachings that are not categorical. And what teachings have I taught and pointed out as not categorical? ‘The cosmos is eternal’ … ‘The cosmos is not eternal’ … ‘The cosmos is finite’ … ‘The cosmos is infinite’ … ‘The soul is the same thing as the body’ … ‘The soul is one thing, the body another’ … ‘A realized one still exists after death’ … ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ … ‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ … ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ And why have I taught and pointed out such teachings as not categorical? Because those things aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have taught and pointed out such teachings as not categorical. And what teachings have I taught and pointed out as categorical? ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. And why have I taught and pointed out such teachings as categorical? Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have taught and pointed out such teachings as categorical.

Santi, poṭṭhapāda, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: ‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti. Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi: ‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti? Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha: “ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā”’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā, tāsaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha: “suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya; mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁpaṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

There are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: ‘The self is absolutely happy and free of disease after death.’ I go up to them and say, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ And they answer, ‘Yes’. I say to them, ‘But do you meditate knowing and seeing an absolutely happy world?’ Asked this, they say, ‘No.’ I say to them, ‘But have you perceived an absolutely happy self for a single day or night, or even half a day or night?’ Asked this, they say, ‘No.’ I say to them, ‘But do you know a path and a practice to realize an absolutely happy world?’ Asked this, they say, ‘No.’ I say to them, ‘But have you ever heard the voice of the deities reborn in an absolutely happy world saying, “Practice well, good fellows, practice directly so as to realize an absolutely happy world. For this is how we practiced, and we were reborn in an absolutely happy world”?’ Asked this, they say, ‘No.’ What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? This being so, doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso evaṁ vadeyya: ‘ahaṁ yā imasmiṁ janapade janapadakalyāṇī, taṁ icchāmi taṁ kāmemī’ti. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ khattiyī vā brāhmaṇī vā vessī vā suddī vā’ti? Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ evaṁnāmā evaṅgottāti vā, dīghā vā rassā vā majjhimā vā kāḷī vā sāmā vā maṅguracchavī vāti, amukasmiṁ gāme vā nigame vā nagare vā’ti? Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, taṁ tvaṁ icchasi kāmesī’ti? Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose, Poṭṭhapāda, a man were to say: ‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’ They’d say to him, ‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’ Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’ They’d say to him, ‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’ Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’ They’d say to him, ‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’ Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’ What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: ‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti. Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi: ‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti? Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha: “ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā”’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā, tāsaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha: “suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya; mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁpaṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have that doctrine and view … Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso cātumahāpathe nisseṇiṁ kareyya pāsādassa ārohaṇāya. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosi, jānāsi taṁ pāsādaṁ puratthimāya vā disāya dakkhiṇāya vā disāya pacchimāya vā disāya uttarāya vā disāya ucco vā nīco vā majjhimo vā’ti? Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, tassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosī’ti? Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse. They’d say to him, My friend, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’ Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’ They’d say to him, ‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’ Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’ What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: ‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti. Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi: ‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti? Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā tāsaṁ devatānaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha: “suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya; mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁ paṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti? Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have those various doctrines and views … Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

2.2. Tayoattapaṭilābha

“Tayo kho me, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhā— oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, manomayo attapaṭilābho, arūpo attapaṭilābho. Katamo ca, poṭṭhapāda, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho? Rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho, ayaṁ oḷāriko attapaṭilābho. Katamo manomayo attapaṭilābho? Rūpī manomayo sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, ayaṁ manomayo attapaṭilābho. Katamo arūpo attapaṭilābho? Arūpī saññāmayo, ayaṁ arūpo attapaṭilābho.

2.2. Three Kinds of Incarnation

“Poṭṭhapāda, there are these three kinds of incarnation: a solid incarnation, a mind-made incarnation, and a formless incarnation. And what is a solid incarnation? It is formed, made up of the four principal states, and consumes edible food. What is a mind-made incarnation? It is formed, mind-made, whole in its major and minor limbs, not deficient in any faculty. What is a formless incarnation? It is formless, made of perception.

Oḷārikassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi: ‘yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa: ‘saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, dukkho ca kho vihāro’ti. Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ. Saṅkilesikā ceva dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā ca dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, pāmujjañceva bhavissati pīti ca passaddhi ca sati ca sampajaññañca sukho ca vihāro. Manomayassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi: ‘yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa: ‘saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, dukkho ca kho vihāro’ti. Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ. Saṅkilesikā ceva dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā ca dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, pāmujjañceva bhavissati pīti ca passaddhi ca sati ca sampajaññañca sukho ca vihāro. Arūpassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi: ‘yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa: ‘saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, dukkho ca kho vihāro’ti. Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ. Saṅkilesikā ceva dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā ca dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, pāmujjañceva bhavissati pīti ca passaddhi ca sati ca sampajaññañca sukho ca vihāro.

I teach the Dhamma for the giving up of reincarnation in these three kinds of incarnation. ‘When you practice accordingly, corrupting qualities will be given up in you and cleansing qualities will grow. You’ll enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with your own insight in this very life.’ Poṭṭhapāda, you might think: ‘Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. But such a life is suffering.’ But you should not see it like this. Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. And there will be only joy and happiness, tranquility, mindfulness and awareness. Such a life is blissful.

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘katamo pana so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti, tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma: ‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

Poṭṭhapāda, if others should ask us, ‘But reverends, what is that solid incarnation for the giving up of which you teach?’ We’d answer like this, ‘This is that solid incarnation.’

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘katamo pana so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti? Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma: ‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

If others should ask us, ‘But reverends, what is that mind-made incarnation?’ We’d answer like this, ‘This is that mind-made incarnation.’

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘katamo pana so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti? Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma: ‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

If others should ask us, ‘But reverends, what is that formless incarnation?’ We’d answer like this, ‘This is that formless incarnation.’ What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? This being so, doesn’t that statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso nisseṇiṁ kareyya pāsādassa ārohaṇāya tasseva pāsādassa heṭṭhā. Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosi, jānāsi taṁ pāsādaṁ, puratthimāya vā disāya dakkhiṇāya vā disāya pacchimāya vā disāya uttarāya vā disāya ucco vā nīco vā majjhimo vā’ti? So evaṁ vadeyya: ‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, pāsādo, yassāhaṁ ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karomi, tasseva pāsādassa heṭṭhā’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti. “Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, pare ce amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘katamo pana so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho …pe… katamo pana so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho …pe… katamo pana so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti? Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma: ‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti? “Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose a man were to build a ladder for climbing up to a stilt longhouse right underneath that longhouse. They’d say to him, ‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’ He’d say, ‘This is that stilt longhouse for which I’m building a ladder, right underneath it.’ What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?” “Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

Evaṁ vutte, citto hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti; oḷāriko vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hoti. Yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti; manomayo vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hoti. Yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti; arūpo vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hotī”ti.

When the Buddha had spoken, Citta Hatthisāriputta said, “Sir, when reincarnated in a solid incarnation, are the mind-made and formless incarnations fictitious, and only the solid incarnation real? When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, are the solid and formless incarnations fictitious, and only the mind-made incarnation real? When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, are the solid and mind-made incarnations fictitious, and only the formless incarnation real?”

“Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; oḷāriko attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; manomayo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Sace taṁ, citta, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘ahosi tvaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ nāhosi; bhavissasi tvaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na bhavissasi; atthi tvaṁ etarahi, na tvaṁ natthī’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, citta, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti? “Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘ahosi tvaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na ahosi; bhavissasi tvaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na bhavissasi; atthi tvaṁ etarahi, na tvaṁ natthī’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ: ‘ahosāhaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, nāhaṁ na ahosiṁ; bhavissāmahaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, nāhaṁ na bhavissāmi; atthāhaṁ etarahi, nāhaṁ natthī’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.

“When reincarnated in a solid incarnation, it’s not referred to as a mind-made or formless incarnation, only as a solid incarnation. When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or formless incarnation, only as a mind-made incarnation. When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or mind-made incarnation, only as a formless incarnation. Citta, suppose they were to ask you, ‘Did you exist in the past? Will you exist in the future? Do you exist now?’ How would you answer?” “Sir, if they were to ask me this, I’d answer like this, ‘I did exist in the past. I will exist in the future. I do exist now.’ That’s how I’d answer.”

“Sace pana taṁ, citta, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘yo te ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno? Yo te bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno? Yo te etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, citta, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti? “Sace pana maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘yo te ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno. Yo te bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno. Yo te etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ: ‘yo me ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco ahosi, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno. Yo me bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco bhavissati, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno. Yo me etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.

“But Citta, suppose they were to ask you, ‘Is the reincarnation you had in the past your only real one, and those of the future and present fictitious? Is the reincarnation you will have in the future your only real one, and those of the past and present fictitious? Is the reincarnation you have now your only real one, and those of the past and future fictitious?’ How would you answer?” “Sir, if they were to ask me this, I’d answer like this, ‘The reincarnation I had in the past was real at that time, and those of the future and present fictitious. The reincarnation I will have in the future will be real at the time, and those of the past and present fictitious. The reincarnation I have now is real at this time, and those of the past and future fictitious.’ That’s how I’d answer.”

“Evameva kho, citta, yasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Oḷāriko attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti …pe… yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

“In the same way, while in any one of the three reincarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.

Seyyathāpi, citta, gavā khīraṁ, khīramhā dadhi, dadhimhā navanītaṁ, navanītamhā sappi, sappimhā sappimaṇḍo. Yasmiṁ samaye khīraṁ hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye dadhīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na navanītanti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappimaṇḍoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; khīrantveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Yasmiṁ samaye dadhi hoti …pe… navanītaṁ hoti … sappi hoti … sappimaṇḍo hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye khīranti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na dadhīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na navanītanti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; sappimaṇḍotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

From a cow comes milk, from milk comes curds, from curds come butter, from butter comes ghee, and from ghee comes cream of ghee. And the cream of ghee is said to be the best of these. While it’s milk, it’s not referred to as curds, butter, ghee, or cream of ghee. It’s only referred to as milk. While it’s curd or butter or ghee or cream of ghee, it’s not referred to as anything else, only under its own name.

Evameva kho, citta, yasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti …pe… yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti …pe… yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati; arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati. Imā kho, citta, lokasamaññā lokaniruttiyo lokavohārā lokapaññattiyo, yāhi tathāgato voharati aparāmasan”ti.

In the same way, while in any one of the three incarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name. These are the world’s common usages, definitions, expressions, and descriptions, which the Realized One uses to communicate without getting stuck on them.”

Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bhante, abhikkantaṁ, bhante. Seyyathāpi, bhante, nikkujjitaṁ vā ukkujjeyya, paṭicchannaṁ vā vivareyya, mūḷhassa vā maggaṁ ācikkheyya, andhakāre vā telapajjotaṁ dhāreyya: ‘cakkhumanto rūpāni dakkhantī’ti; evamevaṁ bhagavatā anekapariyāyena dhammo pakāsito. Esāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhagavā dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.

When he had spoken, the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda said to the Buddha, “Excellent, sir! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what’s there, so too the Buddha has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

2.3. Cittahatthisāriputtaupasampadā

Citto pana hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bhante, abhikkantaṁ, bhante. Seyyathāpi, bhante, nikkujjitaṁ vā ukkujjeyya, paṭicchannaṁ vā vivareyya, mūḷhassa vā maggaṁ ācikkheyya, andhakāre vā telapajjotaṁ dhāreyya: ‘cakkhumanto rūpāni dakkhantī’ti; evamevaṁ bhagavatā anekapariyāyena dhammo pakāsito. Esāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Labheyyāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavato santike pabbajjaṁ, labheyyaṁ upasampadan”ti.

2.3. The Ordination of Citta Hatthisāriputta

But Citta Hatthisāriputta said to the Buddha, “Excellent, sir! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what’s there, so too the Buddha has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. Sir, may I receive the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence?”

Alattha kho citto hatthisāriputto bhagavato santike pabbajjaṁ, alattha upasampadaṁ. Acirūpasampanno kho panāyasmā citto hatthisāriputto eko vūpakaṭṭho appamatto ātāpī pahitatto viharanto na cirasseva—yassatthāya kulaputtā sammadeva agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajanti, tadanuttaraṁ—brahmacariyapariyosānaṁ diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsi. “khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthAttāyā”ti abbhaññāsi. Aññataro kho panāyasmā citto hatthisāriputto arahataṁ ahosīti.

And Citta Hatthisāriputta received the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence. Not long after his ordination, Venerable Citta Hatthisāriputta, living alone, withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute, soon realized the supreme culmination of the spiritual path in this very life. He lived having achieved with his own insight the goal for which gentlemen rightly go forth from the lay life to homelessness. He understood: “Rebirth is ended; the spiritual journey has been completed; what had to be done has been done; there is nothing further for this place.” And Venerable Citta Hatthisāriputta became one of the perfected.