SN 12.18

Timbarukasutta

Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati. Atha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

With Timbaruka

At Sāvatthī. Then the wanderer Timbaruka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:

“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti? Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca. Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti? Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca. Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti? Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca. Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti? Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca. Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti? Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti. Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti? Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan”ti.

“Well, worthy Gotama, are pleasure and pain made by oneself?” “Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha. “Then are pleasure and pain made by another?” “Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha. “Well, are pleasure and pain made by both oneself and another?” “Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha. “Then do pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?” “Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha. “Well, is there no such thing as pleasure and pain?” “It’s not that there’s no such thing as pleasure and pain. Pleasure and pain are real.” “Then does the worthy Gotama not know or see suffering?” “It’s not that I don’t know or see pleasure and pain. I do know pleasure and pain, I do see pleasure and pain.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. ‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. Ācikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ. Desetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan”ti.

“Worthy Gotama, when asked these questions, you say ‘not so’. Yet you say that there is such a thing as pleasure and pain. And you say that you do know pleasure and pain, and you do see pleasure and pain. Sir, explain pleasure and pain to me! Teach me about pleasure and pain!”

“‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. ‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. Ete te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupagamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā; saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ …pe… evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti. Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho; saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho …pe… evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’”ti.

“Suppose that the feeling and the one who feels it are one and the same. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, pleasure and pain is made by oneself. I don’t say this. Suppose that the feeling is one thing and the one who feels it is another. Then for one stricken by feeling, pleasure and pain is made by another. I don’t say this. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Ignorance is a requirement for choices. Choices are a requirement for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates. When ignorance fades away and ceases with no residue left behind, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases. … That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”

Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe… esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.

When he said this, the wanderer Timbaruka said to the Buddha, “Excellent, worthy Gotama! Excellent! … I go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”