SN 12.68

Kosambisutta

Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca musilo āyasmā ca paviṭṭho āyasmā ca nārado āyasmā ca ānando kosambiyaṁ viharanti ghositārāme. Atha kho āyasmā paviṭṭho āyasmantaṁ musilaṁ etadavoca: “aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti.

At Kosambī

At one time the venerables Musīla, Saviṭṭha, Nārada, and Ānanda were staying near Kosambī in Ghosita’s monastery. Then Venerable Saviṭṭha said to Venerable Musīla: “Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that rebirth is a requirement for old age and death?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.”

“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavapaccayā jātīti …pe… upādānapaccayā bhavoti … taṇhāpaccayā upādānanti … vedanāpaccayā taṇhāti … phassapaccayā vedanāti … saḷāyatanapaccayā phassoti … nāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatananti … viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpanti … saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇanti … avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberateation, do you personally know that continued existence is a requirement for rebirth … grasping is a requirement for continued existence … craving is a requirement for grasping … feeling is a requirement for craving … contact is a requirement for feeling … the six sense fields are requirements for contact … name and form are requirements for the six sense fields … consciousness is a requirement for name and form … choices are a requirement for consciousness … ignorance is a requirement for choices?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that ignorance is a requirement for choices.”

“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease.”

“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe… upādānanirodhā bhavanirodhoti … taṇhānirodhā upādānanirodhoti … vedanānirodhā taṇhānirodhoti … phassanirodhā vedanānirodhoti … saḷāyatananirodhā phassanirodhoti … nāmarūpanirodhā saḷāyatananirodhoti … viññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodhoti … saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodhoti … avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that when continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases … when grasping ceases, continued existence ceases … when craving ceases, grasping ceases … when feeling ceases, craving ceases … when contact ceases, feeling ceases … when the six sense fields cease, contact ceases … when name and form cease, the six sense fields cease … when consciousness ceases name and form cease … when choices cease consciousness ceases … when ignorance ceases, choices cease?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that when ignorance ceases, choices cease.”

“Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”

“Tenahāyasmā musilo arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti? Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā musilo tuṇhī ahosi.

“Then Venerable Musīla is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” When he said this, Musīla kept silent.

Atha kho āyasmā nārado āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca: “sādhāvuso paviṭṭha, ahaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ labheyyaṁ. Maṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ puccha. Ahaṁ te etaṁ pañhaṁ byākarissāmī”ti. “Labhatāyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ. Pucchāmahaṁ āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ. Byākarotu ca me āyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ.

Then Venerable Nārada said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, “Reverend Saviṭṭha, please let me answer these questions. Ask me and I will answer them for you.” “By all means, Venerable Nārada, try these questions. I’ll ask you and you can answer them for me.”

Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti. “Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ— bhavapaccayā jāti …pe… avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti. “Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti. “Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe… avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.

(Saviṭṭha repeats exactly the same series of questions, and Nārada answers just as Musīla did.)

“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.

“Reverend Nārada, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”

“Tenahāyasmā nārado arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti? “‘Bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti kho me, āvuso, yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo. Seyyathāpi, āvuso, kantāramagge udapāno, tatra nevassa rajju na udakavārako. Atha puriso āgaccheyya ghammābhitatto ghammapareto kilanto tasito pipāsito, so taṁ udapānaṁ olokeyya. Tassa ‘udakan’ti hi kho ñāṇaṁ assa, na ca kāyena phusitvā vihareyya. Evameva kho, āvuso, ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti.

“Then Venerable Nārada is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” “I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one. Suppose there was a well on a desert road that had neither rope nor bucket. Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d know that there was water, but they couldn’t physically touch it. In the same way, I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.”

Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā ānando āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca: “evaṁvādī tvaṁ, āvuso paviṭṭha, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ kiṁ vadesī”ti? “Evaṁvādāhaṁ, āvuso ānanda, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ na kiñci vadāmi aññatra kalyāṇā aññatra kusalā”ti.

When he said this, Venerable Ānanda said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, “Reverend Saviṭṭha, what do you have to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this?” “Reverend Ānanda, I have nothing to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this, except what is good and wholesome.”