AN 4.175

Upavāṇasutta

Atha kho āyasmā upavāṇo yenāyasmā sāriputto tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā sāriputtena saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā upavāṇo āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ etadavoca:

With Upavāṇa

Then Venerable Upavāṇa went up to Venerable Sāriputta, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, Upavāṇa sat down to one side, and said to Sāriputta:

“Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, vijjāyantakaro hotī”ti?

“Reverend Sāriputta, do you become a terminator because of knowledge?”

“No hidaṁ, āvuso”.

“That’s not it, reverend.”

“Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, caraṇenantakaro hotī”ti?

“Do you become a terminator because of conduct?”

“No hidaṁ, āvuso”.

“That’s not it, reverend.”

“Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, vijjācaraṇenantakaro hotī”ti?

“Do you become a terminator because of both knowledge and conduct?”

“No hidaṁ, āvuso”.

“That’s not it, reverend.”

“Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, aññatra vijjācaraṇenantakaro hotī”ti?

“Do you become a terminator for some reason other than knowledge and conduct?”

“No hidaṁ, āvuso”.

“That’s not it, reverend.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, vijjāyantakaro hotī’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘no hidaṁ, āvuso’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, caraṇenantakaro hotī’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘no hidaṁ, āvuso’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, vijjācaraṇenantakaro hotī’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘no hidaṁ, āvuso’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panāvuso sāriputta, aññatra vijjācaraṇenantakaro hotī’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘no hidaṁ, āvuso’ti vadesi. Yathā kathaṁ panāvuso, antakaro hotī”ti?

“Reverend Sāriputta, when asked whether you become a terminator because of knowledge or conduct or knowledge and conduct, or for some other reason, you say ‘that’s not it’. How then do you become a terminator?”

“Vijjāya ce, āvuso, antakaro abhavissa, saupādānova samāno antakaro abhavissa. Caraṇena ce, āvuso, antakaro abhavissa, saupādānova samāno antakaro abhavissa. Vijjācaraṇena ce, āvuso, antakaro abhavissa, saupādānova samāno antakaro abhavissa. Aññatra vijjācaraṇena ce, āvuso, antakaro abhavissa, puthujjano antakaro abhavissa. Puthujjano hi, āvuso, aññatra vijjācaraṇena. Caraṇavipanno kho, āvuso, yathābhūtaṁ na jānāti na passati. Caraṇasampanno yathābhūtaṁ jānāti passati. Yathābhūtaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ antakaro hotī”ti.

“Reverend, if you became a terminator because of knowledge, then even someone who still grasps fuel could be a terminator. If you became a terminator because of conduct, then even someone who still grasps fuel could be a terminator. If you became a terminator because of both knowledge and conduct, then even someone who still grasps fuel could be a terminator. If you became a terminator for some reason other than knowledge and conduct, then even an ordinary person could be a terminator. For an ordinary person lacks knowledge and conduct. Reverend, someone lacking good conduct does not know and see things as they are. Someone accomplished in good conduct knows and sees things as they are. Knowing and seeing things as they are, one is a terminator.”