MN 44

Cūḷavedallasutta

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā rājagahe viharati veḷuvane kalandakanivāpe. Atha kho visākho upāsako yena dhammadinnā bhikkhunī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā dhammadinnaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho visākho upāsako dhammadinnaṁ bhikkhuniṁ etadavoca:

The Shorter Elaboration

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground. Then the layman Visākha went to see the nun Dhammadinnā, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her:

“‘sakkāyo sakkāyo’ti, ayye, vuccati. Katamo nu kho, ayye, sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā”ti? “Pañca kho ime, āvuso visākha, upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā, seyyathidaṁ—rūpupādānakkhandho, vedanupādānakkhandho, saññupādānakkhandho, saṅkhārupādānakkhandho, viññāṇupādānakkhandho. Ime kho, āvuso visākha, pañcupādānakkhandhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā”ti. “Sādhayye”ti kho visākho upāsako dhammadinnāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā dhammadinnaṁ bhikkhuniṁ uttariṁ pañhaṁ apucchi:

“Ma’am, they speak of this thing called ‘substantial reality’. What is this substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?” “Visākha, the Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are substantial reality. That is, the grasping aggregates of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness. The Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are substantial reality.” Saying “Good, ma’am,” Visākha approved and agreed with what Dhammadinnā said. Then he asked another question:

“‘sakkāyasamudayo sakkāyasamudayo’ti, ayye, vuccati. Katamo nu kho, ayye, sakkāyasamudayo vutto bhagavatā”ti? “Yāyaṁ, āvuso visākha, taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandīrāgasahagatā tatratatrābhinandinī, seyyathidaṁ— kāmataṇhā bhavataṇhā vibhavataṇhā; ayaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyasamudayo vutto bhagavatā”ti.

“Ma’am, they speak of this thing called ‘the origin of substantial reality’. What is the origin of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?” “It’s the craving that leads to future lives, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure there wherever it alights. That is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for continued existence, and craving for nonexistence. The Buddha said that this is the origin of substantial reality.”

“‘Sakkāyanirodho sakkāyanirodho’ti, ayye, vuccati. Katamo nu kho, ayye, sakkāyanirodho vutto bhagavatā”ti? “Yo kho, āvuso visākha, tassāyeva taṇhāya asesavirāganirodho cāgo paṭinissaggo mutti anālayo; ayaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyanirodho vutto bhagavatā”ti.

“Ma’am, they speak of this thing called ‘the cessation of substantial reality’. What is the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?” “It’s the fading away and cessation of that very same craving with no residue left behind; giving it away, letting it go, releasing it, and not clinging to it. The Buddha said that this is the cessation of substantial reality.”

“‘Sakkāyanirodhagāminī paṭipadā sakkāyanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti, ayye, vuccati. Katamā nu kho, ayye, sakkāyanirodhagāminī paṭipadā vuttā bhagavatā”ti? “Ayameva kho, āvuso visākha, ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo sakkāyanirodhagāminī paṭipadā vuttā bhagavatā, seyyathidaṁ— sammādiṭṭhi sammāsaṅkappo sammāvācā sammākammanto sammāājīvo sammāvāyāmo sammāsati sammāsamādhī”ti.

“Ma’am, they speak of the practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality. What is the practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?” “The practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion.”

“Taññeva nu kho, ayye, upādānaṁ te pañcupādānakkhandhā udāhu aññatra pañcahupādānakkhandhehi upādānan”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, taññeva upādānaṁ te pañcupādānakkhandhā, nāpi aññatra pañcahupādānakkhandhehi upādānaṁ. Yo kho, āvuso visākha, pañcasu upādānakkhandhesu chandarāgo taṁ tattha upādānan”ti.

“But ma’am, is that grasping the exact same thing as the five grasping aggregates? Or is grasping one thing and the five grasping aggregates another?” “That grasping is not the exact same thing as the five grasping aggregates. Nor is grasping one thing and the five grasping aggregates another. The desire and greed for the five grasping aggregates is the grasping there.”

“Kathaṁ panāyye, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī”ti? “Idhāvuso visākha, assutavā puthujjano, ariyānaṁ adassāvī ariyadhammassa akovido ariyadhamme avinīto, sappurisānaṁ adassāvī sappurisadhammassa akovido sappurisadhamme avinīto, rūpaṁ attato samanupassati, rūpavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, attani vā rūpaṁ, rūpasmiṁ vā attānaṁ. Vedanaṁ …pe… saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, viññāṇavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, attani vā viññāṇaṁ, viññāṇasmiṁ vā attānaṁ. Evaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi hotī”ti.

“But ma’am, how does substantialist view come about?” “It’s when an unlearned ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen true persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the true persons. They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness. That’s how substantialist view comes about.”

“Kathaṁ panāyye, sakkāyadiṭṭhi na hotī”ti? “Idhāvuso visākha, sutavā ariyasāvako, ariyānaṁ dassāvī ariyadhammassa kovido ariyadhamme suvinīto, sappurisānaṁ dassāvī sappurisadhammassa kovido sappurisadhamme suvinīto, na rūpaṁ attato samanupassati, na rūpavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, na attani vā rūpaṁ, na rūpasmiṁ vā attānaṁ. Na vedanaṁ …pe… na saññaṁ … na saṅkhāre …pe… na viññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, na viññāṇavantaṁ vā attānaṁ, na attani vā viññāṇaṁ, na viññāṇasmiṁ vā attānaṁ. Evaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, sakkāyadiṭṭhi na hotī”ti.

“But ma’am, how does substantialist view not come about?” “It’s when a learned noble disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve seen true persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the true persons. They don’t regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They don’t regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness. That’s how substantialist view does not come about.”

“Katamo panāyye, ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo”ti? “Ayameva kho, āvuso visākha, ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo, seyyathidaṁ— sammādiṭṭhi sammāsaṅkappo sammāvācā sammākammanto sammāājīvo sammāvāyāmo sammāsati sammāsamādhī”ti.

“But ma’am, what is the noble eightfold path?” “It is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion.”

“Ariyo panāyye, aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo saṅkhato udāhu asaṅkhato”ti? “Ariyo kho, āvuso visākha, aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo saṅkhato”ti.

“But ma’am, is the noble eightfold path conditioned or unconditioned?” “The noble eightfold path is conditioned.”

“Ariyena nu kho, ayye, aṭṭhaṅgikena maggena tayo khandhā saṅgahitā udāhu tīhi khandhehi ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo saṅgahito”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, ariyena aṭṭhaṅgikena maggena tayo khandhā saṅgahitā; tīhi ca kho, āvuso visākha, khandhehi ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo saṅgahito. Yā cāvuso visākha, sammāvācā yo ca sammākammanto yo ca sammāājīvo ime dhammā sīlakkhandhe saṅgahitā. Yo ca sammāvāyāmo yā ca sammāsati yo ca sammāsamādhi ime dhammā samādhikkhandhe saṅgahitā. Yā ca sammādiṭṭhi yo ca sammāsaṅkappo, ime dhammā paññākkhandhe saṅgahitā”ti.

“Are the three spectrums of practice included in the noble eightfold path? Or is the noble eightfold path included in the three spectrums of practice?” “The three spectrums of practice are not included in the noble eightfold path. Rather, the noble eightfold path is included in the three spectrums of practice. Right speech, right action, and right livelihood: these things are included in the spectrum of ethics. Right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion: these things are included in the spectrum of immersion. Right view and right purpose: these things are included in the spectrum of wisdom.”

“Katamo panāyye, samādhi, katame dhammā samādhinimittā, katame dhammā samādhiparikkhārā, katamā samādhibhāvanā”ti? “Yā kho, āvuso visākha, cittassa ekaggatā ayaṁ samādhi; cattāro satipaṭṭhānā samādhinimittā; cattāro sammappadhānā samādhiparikkhārā. Yā tesaṁyeva dhammānaṁ āsevanā bhāvanā bahulīkammaṁ, ayaṁ ettha samādhibhāvanā”ti.

“But ma’am, what is immersion? What things are the bases of immersion? What things are the prerequisites for immersion? What is the development of immersion?” “Unification of the mind is immersion. The four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the bases for immersion. The four right efforts are the prerequisites for immersion. The cultivation, development, and making much of these very same things is the development of immersion.”

“Kati panāyye, saṅkhārā”ti? “Tayome, āvuso visākha, saṅkhārā— kāyasaṅkhāro, vacīsaṅkhāro, cittasaṅkhāro”ti.

“How many processes are there?” “There are these three processes. The physical process, the verbal process, and the mental process.”

“Katamo panāyye, kāyasaṅkhāro, katamo vacīsaṅkhāro, katamo cittasaṅkhāro”ti? “Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyasaṅkhāro, vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro, saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.

“But ma’am, what is the physical process? What’s the verbal process? What’s the mental process?” “Breathing is a physical process. Placing the mind and keeping it connected are a verbal process. Perception and feeling are a mental process.”

“Kasmā panāyye, assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro, kasmā vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro, kasmā saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti? “Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikā ete dhammā kāyappaṭibaddhā, tasmā assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro. Pubbe kho, āvuso visākha, vitakketvā vicāretvā pacchā vācaṁ bhindati, tasmā vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro. Saññā ca vedanā ca cetasikā ete dhammā cittappaṭibaddhā, tasmā saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.

“But ma’am, why is breathing a physical process? Why are placing the mind and keeping it connected a verbal process? Why are perception and feeling a mental process?” “Breathing is physical. It’s tied up with the body, that’s why breathing is a physical process. First you place the mind and keep it connected, then you break into speech. That’s why placing the mind and keeping it connected are a verbal process. Perception and feeling are mental. They’re tied up with the mind, that’s why perception and feeling are a mental process.”

“Kathaṁ panāyye, saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpatti hotī”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpajjantassa bhikkhuno evaṁ hoti: ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpajjissan’ti vā, ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpajjāmī’ti vā, ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno’ti vā. Atha khvāssa pubbeva tathā cittaṁ bhāvitaṁ hoti yaṁ taṁ tathattāya upanetī”ti.

“But ma’am, how does someone attain the cessation of perception and feeling?” “A mendicant who is entering such an attainment does not think: ‘I will enter the cessation of perception and feeling’ or ‘I am entering the cessation of perception and feeling’ or ‘I have entered the cessation of perception and feeling.’ Rather, their mind has been previously developed so as to lead to such a state.”

“Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpajjantassa panāyye, bhikkhuno katame dhammā paṭhamaṁ nirujjhanti—yadi vā kāyasaṅkhāro, yadi vā vacīsaṅkhāro, yadi vā cittasaṅkhāro”ti? “Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpajjantassa kho, āvuso visākha, bhikkhuno paṭhamaṁ nirujjhati vacīsaṅkhāro, tato kāyasaṅkhāro, tato cittasaṅkhāro”ti.

“But ma’am, which process ceases first for a mendicant who is entering the cessation of perception and feeling: physical, verbal, or mental?” “The verbal process ceases first, then physical, then mental.”

“Kathaṁ panāyye, saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhānaṁ hotī”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhahantassa bhikkhuno evaṁ hoti: ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhahissan’ti vā, ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhahāmī’ti vā, ‘ahaṁ saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhito’ti vā. Atha khvāssa pubbeva tathā cittaṁ bhāvitaṁ hoti yaṁ taṁ tathattāya upanetī”ti.

“But ma’am, how does someone emerge from the cessation of perception and feeling?” “A mendicant who is emerging from such an attainment does not think: ‘I will emerge from the cessation of perception and feeling’ or ‘I am emerging from the cessation of perception and feeling’ or ‘I have emerged from the cessation of perception and feeling.’ Rather, their mind has been previously developed so as to lead to such a state.”

“Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhahantassa panāyye, bhikkhuno katame dhammā paṭhamaṁ uppajjanti—yadi vā kāyasaṅkhāro, yadi vā vacīsaṅkhāro, yadi vā cittasaṅkhāro”ti? “Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhahantassa kho, āvuso visākha, bhikkhuno paṭhamaṁ uppajjati cittasaṅkhāro, tato kāyasaṅkhāro, tato vacīsaṅkhāro”ti.

“But ma’am, which process arises first for a mendicant who is emerging from the cessation of perception and feeling: physical, verbal, or mental?” “The mental process arises first, then physical, then verbal.”

“Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhitaṁ panāyye, bhikkhuṁ kati phassā phusantī”ti? “Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhitaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, bhikkhuṁ tayo phassā phusanti—suññato phasso, animitto phasso, appaṇihito phasso”ti.

“But ma’am, when a mendicant has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling, how many kinds of contact do they experience?” “They experience three kinds of contact: emptiness, signless, and undirected contacts.”

“Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhitassa panāyye, bhikkhuno kiṁninnaṁ cittaṁ hoti kiṁpoṇaṁ kiṁpabbhāran”ti? “Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpattiyā vuṭṭhitassa kho, āvuso visākha, bhikkhuno vivekaninnaṁ cittaṁ hoti, vivekapoṇaṁ vivekapabbhāran”ti.

“But ma’am, when a mendicant has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling, what does their mind slant, slope, and incline to?” “Their mind slants, slopes, and inclines to seclusion.”

“Kati panāyye, vedanā”ti? “Tisso kho imā, āvuso visākha, vedanā— sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā”ti.

“But ma’am, how many feelings are there?” “There are three feelings: pleasant, painful, and neutral feeling.”

“Katamā panāyye, sukhā vedanā, katamā dukkhā vedanā, katamā adukkhamasukhā vedanā”ti? “Yaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikaṁ vā cetasikaṁ vā sukhaṁ sātaṁ vedayitaṁ— ayaṁ sukhā vedanā. Yaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikaṁ vā cetasikaṁ vā dukkhaṁ asātaṁ vedayitaṁ— ayaṁ dukkhā vedanā. Yaṁ kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikaṁ vā cetasikaṁ vā neva sātaṁ nāsātaṁ vedayitaṁ— ayaṁ adukkhamasukhā vedanā”ti.

“What are these three feelings?” “Anything felt physically or mentally as pleasant or enjoyable. This is pleasant feeling. Anything felt physically or mentally as painful or unpleasant. This is painful feeling. Anything felt physically or mentally as neither pleasurable nor painful. This is neutral feeling.”

“Sukhā panāyye, vedanā kiṁsukhā kiṁdukkhā, dukkhā vedanā kiṁsukhā kiṁdukkhā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā kiṁsukhā kiṁdukkhā”ti? “Sukhā kho, āvuso visākha, vedanā ṭhitisukhā vipariṇāmadukkhā; dukkhā vedanā ṭhitidukkhā vipariṇāmasukhā; adukkhamasukhā vedanā ñāṇasukhā aññāṇadukkhā”ti.

“What is pleasant and what is painful regarding each of the three feelings?” “Pleasant feeling is pleasant when it remains and painful when it perishes. Painful feeling is painful when it remains and pleasant when it perishes. Neutral feeling is pleasant in the presence of knowledge, and painful in the presence of ignorance.”

“Sukhāya panāyye, vedanāya kiṁ anusayo anuseti, dukkhāya vedanāya kiṁ anusayo anuseti, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya kiṁ anusayo anusetī”ti? “Sukhāya kho, āvuso visākha, vedanāya rāgānusayo anuseti, dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo anuseti, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo anusetī”ti.

“What underlying tendencies underlie each of the three feelings?” “The underlying tendency for greed underlies pleasant feeling. The underlying tendency for aversion underlies painful feeling. The underlying tendency for ignorance underlies neutral feeling.”

“Sabbāya nu kho, ayye, sukhāya vedanāya rāgānusayo anuseti, sabbāya dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo anuseti, sabbāya adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo anusetī”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, sabbāya sukhāya vedanāya rāgānusayo anuseti, na sabbāya dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo anuseti, na sabbāya adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo anusetī”ti.

“Do these underlying tendencies always underlie these feelings?” “No, they do not.”

“Sukhāya panāyye, vedanāya kiṁ pahātabbaṁ, dukkhāya vedanāya kiṁ pahātabbaṁ, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya kiṁ pahātabban”ti? “Sukhāya kho, āvuso visākha, vedanāya rāgānusayo pahātabbo, dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo pahātabbo, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo pahātabbo”ti.

“What should be given up in regard to each of these three feelings?” “The underlying tendency to greed should be given up when it comes to pleasant feeling. The underlying tendency to aversion should be given up when it comes to painful feeling. The underlying tendency to ignorance should be given up when it comes to neutral feeling.”

“Sabbāya nu kho, ayye, sukhāya vedanāya rāgānusayo pahātabbo, sabbāya dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo pahātabbo, sabbāya adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo pahātabbo”ti? “Na kho, āvuso visākha, sabbāya sukhāya vedanāya rāgānusayo pahātabbo, na sabbāya dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo pahātabbo, na sabbāya adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo pahātabbo. Idhāvuso visākha, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Rāgaṁ tena pajahati, na tattha rāgānusayo anuseti. Idhāvuso visākha, bhikkhu iti paṭisañcikkhati: ‘kudāssu nāmāhaṁ tadāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharissāmi yadariyā etarahi āyatanaṁ upasampajja viharantī’ti? Iti anuttaresu vimokkhesu pihaṁ upaṭṭhāpayato uppajjati pihāppaccayā domanassaṁ. Paṭighaṁ tena pajahati, na tattha paṭighānusayo anuseti. Idhāvuso visākha, bhikkhu sukhassa ca pahānā, dukkhassa ca pahānā, pubbeva somanassadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamā, adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Avijjaṁ tena pajahati, na tattha avijjānusayo anusetī”ti.

“Should these underlying tendencies be given up regarding all instances of these feelings?” “No, not in all instances. Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. With this they give up greed, and the underlying tendency to greed does not lie within that. And take a mendicant who reflects: ‘Oh, when will I enter and remain in the same dimension that the noble ones enter and remain in today?’ Nursing such a longing for the supreme liberations gives rise to sadness due to longing. With this they give up aversion, and the underlying tendency to aversion does not lie within that. Take a mendicant who, with the giving up of pleasure and pain and the disappearance of former happiness and sadness, enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness. With this they give up ignorance, and the underlying tendency to ignorance does not lie within that.”

“Sukhāya panāyye, vedanāya kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Sukhāya kho, āvuso visākha, vedanāya dukkhā vedanā paṭibhāgo”ti. “Dukkhāya pannāyye, vedanāya kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Dukkhāya kho, āvuso visākha, vedanāya sukhā vedanā paṭibhāgo”ti. “Adukkhamasukhāya panāyye, vedanāya kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Adukkhamasukhāya kho, āvuso visākha, vedanāya avijjā paṭibhāgo”ti. “Avijjāya panāyye, kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Avijjāya kho, āvuso visākha, vijjā paṭibhāgo”ti. “Vijjāya panāyye, kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Vijjāya kho, āvuso visākha, vimutti paṭibhāgo”ti. “Vimuttiyā panāyye, kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Vimuttiyā kho, āvuso visākha, nibbānaṁ paṭibhāgo”ti. “Nibbānassa panāyye, kiṁ paṭibhāgo”ti? “Accayāsi, āvuso visākha, pañhaṁ, nāsakkhi pañhānaṁ pariyantaṁ gahetuṁ. Nibbānogadhañhi, āvuso visākha, brahmacariyaṁ, nibbānaparāyanaṁ nibbānapariyosānaṁ. Ākaṅkhamāno ca tvaṁ, āvuso visākha, bhagavantaṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ puccheyyāsi, yathā ca te bhagavā byākaroti tathā naṁ dhāreyyāsī”ti.

“But ma’am, what is the counterpart of pleasant feeling?” “Painful feeling.” “What is the counterpart of painful feeling?” “Pleasant feeling.” “What is the counterpart of neutral feeling?” “Ignorance.” “What is the counterpart of ignorance?” “Knowledge.” “What is the counterpart of knowledge?” “Freedom.” “What is the counterpart of freedom?” “Extinguishment.” “What is the counterpart of extinguishment?” “Your question goes too far, Visākha. You weren’t able to grasp the limit of questioning. For extinguishment is the objective, destination, and culmination of the spiritual life. If you wish, go to the Buddha and ask him this question. You should remember it in line with his answer.”

Atha kho visākho upāsako dhammadinnāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā dhammadinnaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho visākho upāsako yāvatako ahosi dhammadinnāya bhikkhuniyā saddhiṁ kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi. Evaṁ vutte, bhagavā visākhaṁ upāsakaṁ etadavoca: “paṇḍitā, visākha, dhammadinnā bhikkhunī, mahāpaññā, visākha, dhammadinnā bhikkhunī. Mañcepi tvaṁ, visākha, etamatthaṁ puccheyyāsi, ahampi taṁ evamevaṁ byākareyyaṁ, yathā taṁ dhammadinnāya bhikkhuniyā byākataṁ. Eso cevetassa attho. Evañca naṁ dhārehī”ti. Idamavoca bhagavā. Attamano visākho upāsako bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinandīti.

And then the layman Visākha approved and agreed with what the nun Dhammadinnā said. He rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right. Then he went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed. When he had spoken, the Buddha said to him, “The nun Dhammadinnā is astute, Visākha, she has great wisdom. If you came to me and asked this question, I would answer it in exactly the same way as the nun Dhammadinnā. That is what it means, and that’s how you should remember it.” That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the layman Visākha approved what the Buddha said.