SN 44.11

Sabhiyakaccānasutta

Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā sabhiyo kaccāno ñātike viharati giñjakāvasathe. Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yenāyasmā sabhiyo kaccāno tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā sabhiyena kaccānena saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako āyasmantaṁ sabhiyaṁ kaccānaṁ etadavoca: “kiṁ nu kho bho, kaccāna, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bho kaccāna, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

With Sabhiya Kaccāna

At one time Venerable Sabhiya Kaccāna was staying at Ñātika in the brick house. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to him, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side, and said to Sabhiya Kaccāna: “Worthy Kaccāna, does a realized one still exist after death?” “Vaccha, this has not been declared by the Buddha.” “Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?” “This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Kiṁ nu kho, bho kaccāna, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā: ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bho kaccāna, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one both still exist and no longer exist after death?” “This has not been declared by the Buddha.” “Well then, does a realized one neither still exist nor no longer exist after death?” “This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho kaccāna, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā— hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho kaccāna, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā— na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho kaccāna, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā— hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho kaccāna, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā— neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. Ko nu kho, bho kaccāna, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ samaṇena gotamenā”ti? “Yo ca, vaccha, hetu, yo ca paccayo paññāpanāya rūpīti vā arūpīti vā saññīti vā asaññīti vā nevasaññīnāsaññīti vā, so ca hetu, so ca paccayo sabbena sabbaṁ sabbathā sabbaṁ aparisesaṁ nirujjheyya. Kena naṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya rūpīti vā arūpīti vā saññīti vā asaññīti vā nevasaññīnāsaññīti vā”ti. “Kīvaciraṁ pabbajitosi, bho kaccānā”ti? “Naciraṁ, āvuso, tīṇi vassānī”ti. “Yassapassa, āvuso, etamettakena ettakameva tampassa bahu, ko pana vādo evaṁ abhikkante”ti.

“Worthy Kaccāna, when asked these questions, you say that this has not been declared by the Buddha. What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?” “In order to describe him as ‘formed’ or ‘formless’ or ‘percipient’ or ‘non-percipient’ or ‘neither percipient nor non-percipient’, there must be some cause or reason for doing so. But if that cause and reason were to totally and utterly cease without remainder, how could you describe him in any such terms?” “Worthy Kaccāna, how long has it been since you went forth?” “Not long, reverend: three years.” “One who has learned this much in this time, reverend, has learned a lot, who can say what lies ahead!”