Diamond Sūtra 25

‘What do you think then, O Subhiati, does a Tathagata think in this wise: Beings have been delivered by me? You should not think so, O Subhuti. And why? Because there is no being, O Subhuti, that has been delivered by the Tathagata. And, if there were a being, O Subhhti, that has been delivered by the Tathâgata, then the Tathagata would believe in self, believe in a being, believe in a living being, and believe in a person. And what is called a belief in self, O Subhhti, that is preached As before, in chap. as no-belief by the Tathigata. And this is learned by children and ignorant persons; and they who were preached as children and ignorant persons, O Subhuti, were preached as no-persons by the Tathâgata, and therefore they are called children and ignorant persons.’

XXVI

‘What do you think then, O Subhuti, is the Tathagata to be, seen (known) by the possession of signs’ Subhhti said: ‘Not indeed, O Bhagavat. So far as I know the meaning of the preaching of the Bhagavat, the Tathagata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs.’ Bhagavat said: ‘Good, good, Subhati, so it is, Subhhti; so it is, as you say; a Tathâgata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs. And why? Because, O Subhati, if the Tathagata were to be seen (known) by the possession of signs, a wheel-turning king also would be a Tathâgata'; therefore a Tathagata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs.’ The venerable Subhuti spoke thus to the Bhagavat: ‘As I understand the meaning of the preaching of the Bhagavat, a Tathagata is not to be seen (known) by the possession of signs.’ Then the Bhagavat at that.moment preached these two Gathas:

They who saw me by form, and they who heard me by sound,

They engaged in false endeavours, will not see me. A king or a Buddha is to be seen (known) from the Law; for the Lords (Buddhas) have the Law-body; And the nature of the Law cannot be understood, nor can it be made to be understood.